Choosing A Psychology Degree, What Are Placement Years, University Burnout and More With Alia Awan.

This week on The Psychology World Podcast MSc Developmental Psychology graduate discusses how she got into psychology, why she choose the University of Kent over other universities, her experience of university burnout and so much more. If you want to learn more about studying psychology, how to make the most of your time at university and more then this will be a brilliant episode for you.

Today’s psychology podcast episode has been sponsored by Year In Psychology. Available from all major eBook retailers and you can order the paperback and hardback copies from Amazon, your local bookstore and local library, if you request it. Also available as an AI-narrated audiobook from selected audiobook platforms and library systems. For example, Kobo, Spotify, Barnes and Noble, Google Play, Overdrive, Baker and Taylor and Bibliotheca.

Who is PhD Student Alia Awan?

Alia Awan has just completed her Masters in Developmental Psychology at the University of Kent (where she also completed her undergraduate degree in Psychology). She is currently a PhD student in Applied Health Research focusing on adolescent social media use and health. Her research interests also include children’s play, imagination and the science of reading. In her spare time she like to play badminton, read, do some colouring and spend time with family and friends.

Connor: Hi, everyone, and welcome to "The Psychology World Podcast." And today, I have a really good special guest, Alia. She’s a psychology master's student and studied in developmental psychology. She's a good, a friend, and she's really interesting because she's done so many different bits and pieces with her psychology degree.

So, hi, Alia. Would you want to introduce yourself and how you got into psychology?

How Did You Get into Psychology?

Alia: Yes, my name is Alia. I just finished my masters. So I did my undergrad and masters at the same university, similar to Connor. The way I got into psychology, it's not...I think it's quite similar to how a lot of sixth form students pick their university choice in that it was the class that I least dreaded the most. Like the other classes, I thought, "Oh, I don't want to go. I can't be bothered." But psychology was the one where I was like, "Oh, I want to go." Like, "I can't wait to see what's next," or, I don't know, "I want to know what we're learning today." So that's how I picked psychology, and I'm really glad I did because when I first started my university year, I was like, "Oh, psychology is a lot broader than I thought it was."

But then there were also things that I noticed. Like, I thought I'd really like forensics because I thought forensics was about crime and serial killers and that stuff. And then it wasn't. But that opened my eyes up to how much, like, pop psychology is out there, and how much, like, you really have to delve into the subject to figure out if it is what it really is, if that makes sense. So when you learn psychology and do it, doing it as a degree, it's not like you're going into it and you're going to learn how to read minds or you're going to diagnose everyone because that's what everyone still thinks I do. But that's not the case. It's a lot broader than you think it is or people usually think it is.

Connor: Yeah, definitely. Thank you. Because I remember when I did sixth form, so for our international audience, that is the 16 to 18-year-old education option that we have in the UK, and I was like, "I'm going to pick the least worst option," because I did IB Chemistry, and I hated it so much, so much. But then like you said psychology, again, is exciting.

And those myths and misconceptions that we have to deal with is so constant. People still will think that I do mind reading and everything else.

So another question that I want to ask you, why did you choose Kent over some of the other universities in case there were other listeners thinking about studying psychology, but they're unsure what you need to look at?

How Did You Choose A University for Your Psychology Degree?

Alia: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a very big choice to make, obviously, because if you're going away from home, it's a scary decision to make sometimes. And you want to make sure you pick the right uni for you. And there are some, like, city-based universities in the UK, and then there's some campus-based. So I chose Kent because I live close to home, and I wanted to stay home for the first few years to save money and work and save money on the side. And then I ended up really enjoying it and falling in love with Kent. Because it's mainly the staff that I fell in love with at Kent, like the way they teach, and the passion they had.

Because I think students will go...you can go to any sort of university and find your people, find your friends. So wherever you go, I wouldn't worry about making sure you find your people because it's one of the times in your life, I think, you'll be met with so much diversity. And I really like that because I can't think of another opportunity, not even in a job where you'd meet so many different people in one place with so many different interests. Well, yes, so one of the reasons I chose Kent is because I wanted to stay close to home. But if you do want to move away from home, I think things...like on our open days, because I'm a student ambassador, on open days I tell people to consider their budget, how far away they actually want to be from home, whether they want a city-based university, campus-based university, because the vibes are a bit different.

Like, with a campus-based university, what I like is everything's in one place. So if I have a friend who's got a subject or a lecture on, like, the other side of campus, we're not far and we can meet in the middle for coffee. Whereas if it's city-based, you might be you might be a bit further apart. And I like that everything is in one place, especially in Canterbury because everything is quite close by. But one of the good things about city-based is that it is far apart. So it depends on your preferences as well. And city-based tends to be to be a little bit busier, I suppose. But I think when I chose Kent, I didn't put as much thought into it. I was like, "Okay, I want to stay home, and this is quite a good uni. And they do really well in psychology, so might as well." And then when I actually came to Kent, I was like, "Oh, this is a good thing. This is a good thing." And then I get to tell people what I love about Kent at the open days and be genuine about it.

Connor: Thank you for sharing about that. Because me and Alia, we tend to work a lot of open days together. And I love those days because it's just a really good chance though for us to catch up, talk about our research and our other interests, but also just to talk to other students about how passionate we are, well, just about psychology, about our university, especially when it came to the staff. Because if you've got really good staff that are passionate, educated, and they really just want to, like, talk to you, sometimes they'll just talk your ear off about the research. They're so passionate, it has some effect and can really make a massive difference. Thank you for that.

Alia: One of the good things if you have the chance to go to an open day, talk to the staff about their research interests, and you'll see how passionate they are. You might find that yours align or your quite interested in what they do because they tend to bring the stuff they research into their lectures, because they deliver lectures on what they know more about, of course. Wait, of course, it's not general knowledge, but, yeah, they do tend to do that. And then you can always go and speak to them as well. And I think it's just so interesting that they're interesting and they're interested in their research and work, because they can help give you ideas or they can help guide you, in that sense, with your ideas. Yeah, it's just great learning from, like, the experts in the field, and they're not far from you, so you might as well.

If you've got three or four years at uni, or five or six, in our case, make the most your staff that are available to you. Usually, in university's psychology department, because psychology is such a big subject, you'll have quite a few university's staff members, and if you have the time, I would say, for that uni you're thinking about going to, have a look at the staff profiles.

Because, usually, they say, like, what their research interests are and maybe read some of their papers as well, or have a little look. Sometimes they can be really hard to read and really confusing because of the technical terms, especially if you haven't done psychology before. But it can be quite eye opening to see what the time in the uni is good at and what the lecturers are good at.

Yeah, I loved the work in the open days because also in between when prospective students go off and do things, the ambassadors and the staff would just chat away, would just keep yapping. I don't even know about what sometimes, but it's really enough to build those relationships as well.

Connor: Yeah, definitely though...and this is one of the reasons why I love the clinical psychology lecturers. Because all of the clinical psychologists, they're actually practicing. So in their lectures they actually get to talk about their cases, their past experiences, and that really does make the subject come alive.

And I completely agree with what you say about sometimes we're talking to lecturers, we don't even know what we're talking about but we're just, like, enjoying it. And that's just part of the fun of it. So I completely agree with what Alia said definitely look at the university profiles and see if you're interests align.

Alia: But also they are really open to the ideas you have and learning new things that you might find. So you might find a very unique paper, a really niche paper, and say, "Oh, this is in your subject area, what do you think?" And they might go, "Oh, well, I haven't read that yet." Yeah, so they're also open to learning as much as they're teaching. But I think you'll also find that in other uni's, of course, I haven't been to other uni's, but I can at least speak for the Kent Psychology Department and other departments as well, to be fair.

Connor: Yeah, true. So did you find that quite surprising when you first went there, that they were open to talking to you?

Were You Surprised the Psychology Lecturers Wanted to Talk to You?

Alia: Yeah, definitely. I think I was really worried that because they were lecturers they would be like, "above me." But they're not. They want to talk to you. They want to learn more about you. They want to be friendly with you. They're not scary people. Like, they're going to eat you alive. Like, they are also there for you as well because, again, you get an academic advisor assigned to you. And they're there to support you with any academic needs, personal needs. Like, I remember a few years ago, there was this one girl who was really struggling to make friends at uni, and she spoke to one of the supervisors. And the supervisor knew my group of friends and brought her to us, and was like, "Get to know these people because they're really nice."

So you can talk to them about quite a few different things, and they're open to it as well. They're not just there for academic purposes, but, of course, they're not also there for...like, you have specific services for mental health support. But they are mainly there for academic support, if that makes sense. So they're still there for academic support...

Connor: Yeah, definitely.

Alia: ...but they can't completely do the mental health support because there is a dedicated service for that.

Connor: Yeah, and that's really nice that you were able to become friends with this person just because a supervisor knew that you were really nice. So that's brilliant for that. And in my experience and most other lecturers, they're just a down to earth human. Because my supervisor kind of similar and we would be like, "That's a meeting for an hour and 20 minutes." We were literally talking for like an hour about here and everything about our lives. And we only spent probably 10 or 20 minutes talking about why I was actually there. So it's brilliant. Thank you. That's really good insight that I think everyone can learn from.

How Do Psychology Placement Years Work?

Connor: So did you want to talk about placements now?

Alia: Yeah, so I'll go first. So the way the university do our placements, they sort of do it towards the end of... It's not the end of first year. End of first year or beginning of second year, where they advertise it like a job sort of thing. So they say this X company is looking for a placement student. Send you a cover letter, CV, or use this application form, and email it to this person by this date. It's a really good experience because it's sort of like you're applying for a job, and I didn't quite realize it then, but it is pretty much like applying for a job. So you get that experience of applying. And we have a careers and employability service who help us with applications and can support us with applications.

Because it's quite a new thing because you don't usually get that sort of opportunity at least in secondary school here to be applying for jobs, although some schools do, like, mock interviews, it's a really hard process. And it's something, like, you have to sort of learn. It's something that takes a bit of time to learn as well, like get used to doing interviews and stuff. Like, I'm still not used to doing interviews. But, yeah, we do have the support there as well for that.

But the way we did it was, like, applying for a job, and then usually, you'd applied to multiple... Like, the way I did it was I applied for ones I thought maybe I won't like that. Because what I loved about my placement was that I did it in a clinical setting in an autism diagnostic service. And whilst I enjoyed and learned a lot, it showed me that I didn't want to work in a clinical setting. It just wasn't right for me, but a lot of people found that they did a clinical based placement, and then they ended up loving it and knew it was for them.

So it does teach you what you like and don't like. And I think it's really important that you learn what you don't like really early on because during my placement I found that I really loved research, and that led me to pursue research-based experiences and roles after my placement year in undergrad. And that's led me to where I currently am.

But if I had not done my placement year, I would have geared my whole career towards clinical and ended up realizing that it's not really for me. So it would have been a big...not waste of time, but it would have been, I suppose, like a waste of time for me because then I found out I didn't like it, if that makes sense. But I don't like to use the phrase waste of time because I still learn a lot. Like, I've built a lot of confidence during my placement.

Connor: Okay. Brilliant, and that's something that I always say to people about placement years is that you use it as a chance to act an experiment, and just what you did where you went in some realizer that you hated. And it's so much better than doing all the qualifications, all the studying and you realize, "Oh my god, I've just spent so many years doing this."

And something else that I would add is that sometimes you might not like something at that moment in time, but then later on, you might find out that you love it. Like, I did a research placement with Amir, brilliant man. Loved working with him. But research during COVID was not fun. I flat out hated it. But then in my masters, I did lots of research on transgender mental health, and it was really good. I, like, loved it because I could do my research however I wanted to, and it was a lot of fun.

Alia: Like, if you realize you've tried something and you're like, "Oh, I really don't like this," maybe try it again a bit later. Like, for example, in my second year, I thought because I had already done the year of psychology and I was like, "Kind of interested in eating disorders and disordered eating in people and doing maybe some research in that." So I joined Rise and Recover, which isn't currently a society because there wasn't enough people this year and last year to run it.

But it was a society about raising awareness and fundraising for Beat, an eating disorder charity. And it was really nice while we had it. Like, I got to speak to KMTV about what we as a society do at Kent and how we can raise more awareness in Kent and our local area of eating disorders. And then as I got more into psychology, I fell in love with child development. I fell in love with researching imagery. And also you don't have to just have one interest. That's one thing I've learnt. You don't have to have one research interest, you can have multiple.

Or not even just research-wise, you can have lots of general interests in different things. You don't just have to be like, "Oh, yeah, I only like this thing, and I can only like this thing." You can like multiple things. Because now, I might be going into looking into disordered eating and disordered eating behavior. So I've kind of done like a full circle moment. So I started off thinking, "Oh, I quite like this topic." I kind of erred quite a bit away from it, and now, I'm coming back to it. And I never thought I really would.

But do keep an open mind as well doing your degrees. Whatever degree you do, try getting involved in lots of different types of placements or work experience opportunities. Because they really teach you what you might want to do in the future, and I think undergrad, and if you do a masters, it's the best time to do it because you've got that time to work it out because you're doing something in the background and you're gaining a qualification in the background.

But also at the same time, try not to overload yourself. So try have your degree and then maybe doing work experience or placement like part-time or if not part-time, then in your weekends or on holidays, but also be wary of burnout. It's quite a hard thing to balance, and it does take some time to figure out how to balance it because everyone's different. So you just kind of have to trial and error and work out what's for you. But you've got time to do that in your first year, especially where usually your first year doesn't count towards your whole degree, like, the marks don't count to your degree. So that's probably the best time to do it, I would say. Work out how to balance your commitments with your degree.

Connor: Wow, definitely, and I didn't know you did the whole eating disorders society. I think that’s fascinating that you were able to make a society. And for our international audience, a society is a sort of like an adult social club. So it's a group of people that form a group around a particular interest.

But that's great clinical psychology experience, and I can imagine lots of other people thinking that they might want to do that at their own universities. Because not only will they be able to evidence their skills, then that proves that they're really passionate about psychology because they're going above and beyond. So that's amazing. I thank you so much for sharing that.

How To Manage Burnout For University Psychology Students?

Connor: And burnout. Burnout's just a nightmare. I've been burnt out quite a few times during my degree life. It's never fun. Can you recommend any sort of tips and tricks how you manage burnout because it's going to hit all of us at some point?

Alia: Yeah. I think it's going to hit you at some point, and different people have different capacities. So it's okay if you're burnout before other people or if you're like, "Oh, everyone around me is burnout, but I'm not burnout yet." You might get burnout. You might never experience burnout, and be like some sort of superhuman being. But you might experience burnout from academic studies, personal life, or both combined. And that can be quite tricky.

But I think I don't know, like, the exact signs. I think signs are different in people. But you start to feel like...I noticed I start to feel really tired, demotivated for things I usually would feel motivated to do, and I just think I can't really be bothered to do that even though sometimes that is a daily occurrence, I can't be bothered to do something. But you just find that you really don't want to do the things that you enjoyed before, and you don't really want to be social maybe.

I can't remember if you said to avoid burnout. I think you said avoid burnout, but to avoid burnout I would... I don't really know. I think I try find a work-life balance that works for me, but also include and make sure I have some social time. And by social time, I mean meeting up with friends but not too frequently for me. So I try to like once a week meet up or every couple of weeks with different people just to keep it varied and also make sure I have commitments that aren't super draining for me outside of studies.

Like, now, I just finished my masters, and I do feel quite burnt out. So I've got a few weeks before I start my next thing. And what I'm doing now is while I have work to do on the side, like research assistant role to do on the side, I'm making sure in my free time that I am going with what I'm genuinely motivated to do. So maybe I fancy going to the gym, maybe I fancy going to do a little bit of shopping, window shopping, well, such as shopping, or maybe I fancy going to meet with a friend, or going to the park, or maybe just going by myself for a walk, or doing some reading. Like, I'm just going day by day even though I'm very much a planner. Like, I need to plan to a specific time. I know that I need to give myself a bit of...like, allow myself to just go with the flow a bit so I can recover from burnout.

Connor: Definitely, and I'm really glad that you are looking after yourself that way. Because, like, I've seen you a few times during your burnout, and I'm glad you're doing a lot better. And, actually, at the time of recording, I'm doing like three massive projects. And I'm like, "No, three massive projects is too much. I'm approaching burnout." So next week, I've got to be a lot more mindful about giving myself time to relax. But I also think that it's healthy for us, like, to have this conversation just so people can know that burnout is normal. It's not ideal, and if you find yourself at burnout, then there are steps that you can take. So thank you for sharing.

Alia: Oh, sorry, I just wanted to add to that and just say, like you said, like, you might not get recover from your burnout the day after you feel burnt out and, like, the day after you recognize your burnout. Because sometimes your body tells you, so do listen to your body. Because sometimes your body tells you you're tired before you even know you're tired, and I think it's just important to become more attuned. I don't know if that's the word, attuned to your body and the signals that tell you you're tired and exhausted. But try listen to it as early as possible and catch it as early as possible. Because the longer you wait, I suppose, the longer recovery time. And then it kind of might impact whatever you're doing. Whether you're working or still doing your degree, you might be burnt out around exams, and that's not an ideal time because you want to be productive.

Also, try not to be too hard on yourself when you're burnt out and push yourself even further because I've seen people, like, who push themselves to that point and then they really start to struggle. But do reach out when you do feel that. Reach out to people you know and trust when you feel that way. But I also really like...there was this analogy, you've probably heard of it and a lot of people have heard of it. Like, a spoon analogy. Like, you only have a certain amount of spoons each day, and you're not going to have the same level of energy each day. And I like that because it makes me feel like it's okay to put more effort in one day and then not do so much the next day, and that's normal. Like, you don't have to go 100% every day, and 100% looks different as well.

Connor: That's what I've got to get a lot better at because most of the time I just go full pelt all the time, and that's where I tend to, like, forward down a lot. But the spoons theory is really good. I've spoken about it before on the podcast. Listeners, if you want to learn more, search the backlist. It's something like spoons theory and autism, but it's really good though. And thank you, Alia, for reminding me because I need to incorporate that into my work next week.

Alia: Easier said than done that all. This I'm saying is so much easier said than done. I struggle with it. Everyone struggles with it, and it's normal to struggle with burnout, and not knowing when you're burnt out, and then realizing you're burnt out and thinking, "Oh, no, I pushed it too far." And sometimes for people this happens on repeat till you learn your signs. So, yeah, don't be too hard on yourself if you don't pick up immediately that you are burnt out because it's hard. It's a working progress for everyone, I think.

What Is Stats Buddies?

Connor: True. Definitely. Thank you. During your undergrad, you started this really interesting program called Stat Buddies. Could you please tell us what that is? What's it about?

Alia: Yeah. Also, I don't know how much time we have, but I'll talk you through the little journey I had with stats buddies. So in my undergrad, in first year, I started in lockdown, which meant it was all online and everyone was a bit disconnected. I hadn't met anyone. It was a bit awkward. So the stats lecturer that we had at that time, I forgot his last name but he was Dr. Lazarus. He was really good. He's at another university at the moment. But he decided that he wanted to create something called stats buddies, where it was like peer to peer support. So I volunteered to be a stats buddy, and I was really worried because I thought, "Oh, no, I'm going to have to be perfect at stats." But, actually, I wasn't.

But, actually, it was a really helpful tool to help me learn because I had to know enough to teach, which meant I tried to really understand it myself. And it was usually if you can teach someone something, it means you've understood it well, and that kind of reassured me that I knew some stats. So we did that in first year, and then it kind of disbanded during undergrad, and then someone else did it in their final year. And then the year after that, me and a couple other people, we set up something called Psych Buddies. So we took Stats Buddies and made it into this bigger thing called Psych Buddies, where we support students with their study skills, so giving some exam and revision tips, Google Scholar hacks, essay writing, APA formatting tips.

But the aim of it was not to spoon feed people and tell people the answers, like, "Do this, this, this." it was to equip them with the tools to support themselves in the future because that initiative might not be there forever. It might not be there when they graduate, of course, because they might be somewhere else. So it was to make them independent learners, which I know the university as a whole tried to do. But we had weekly, hourly...actually, they were two hours, two-hour sessions to do that and support students in that sense. So they would come in, and we would help them with... There were volunteers as well. So we called ourselves Stats Buddies. And they would come in, and they might have an error with their code. They might be struggling with a specific assignment or not understand it, and we would help them try to be independent in their thinking.

So, for example, I'll put it into context, and I'll give an example. So maybe someone comes in and their code isn't working, which is pretty common in psychology. If you know RStudio, then you know that it's a very common thing, and it's fine if it's not working because, yeah, it happens all time. So they'd come in. They couldn't figure it out. So what we would do as a stats buddy is maybe narrate the process that's going on in our mind to help resolve the problem. So we'd say, "Okay, let's check if the variable name you're trying to do is the same as the one in your data set. Let's check the spelling. Let's check if there's any extra things you put in the code that shouldn't be there. Let's actually read the error code and try and understand it."

So we talk through our steps so that this person can then carry out the same steps next time when they have an error in their code. Just little things like that to help people be independent in their thinking, and we also didn't want to copy what they were taught in lectures and seminars at uni. So we made sure that we saw what they're actually doing at uni, and then, basically, added onto that with extra information. So, for example, the uni might cover some study skills tips, like revision tips, but then we would add to them by thinking of some neurodivergent friendly ones, like body doubling.

I really like body doubling, where you sit with someone else doing maybe the same task, a different task, and it would it might help you be more productive and get be more focused in your work. But, yeah, that's sort of...it's like buddy is essentially there to support. It was peer to peer support, which I think students felt more comfortable with because it wasn't like a lecturer. They felt like they could ask all their questions, silly or not. Obviously, we didn't judge or...

Connor: As someone who hates RStudio with an utter passion, and the podcast is well aware of my hatred for RStudio, thank you so much for developing that sort of support. Because as you say RStudio, everything is supposed to be so exact. If your variable name might not have a capital letter or there might be one extra space at the end, then the entire thing just doesn't work. I know it's a nightmare, so thank you for developing that.

And I also saw throughout the university and throughout the school of psychology how popular it was, how useful it was. And I won't go into it on the podcast, but as I know there were lots of difference and things going on around stats and buddies, and it wasn't always smooth sailing. But I know you did amazing work. But that's what I laughed at when I originally asked the question even though I'm going to, like, edit it out because I know so much happens around it. But you did like amazing.

And the reason why I wanted to, like, share that story on the podcast is that I think that because in psychology stats is such a fearful topic. Lots of students find stats really stressful. I think that this could actually inspire other students to develop that sort of program and, yes, in their universities in their own friendship groups.

Alia: Definitely, yeah, you don't have to be a stats expert. You can learn alongside students quite often. Well, not quite often. But sometimes we would be learning alongside the students. We'd say, "Oh, actually, I don't really know. Let's look it up together." And we'd show them the process of how we looked it up and how we found answers because that's also another tool to help support their independent learning.

And I remember a few weeks ago, a few months ago, I met one of the friends that was living in the same building as me. And she was like, "Oh my gosh, did you...?" Because I told her about psych buddies, and she was like, "Oh my gosh, wait did you lead psych buddies?" Because she was a first year student and doing psychology, and she was like, "Oh my gosh, was that you? Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm meeting a celebrity." And I think that was a moment I was like, "Oh, so people know about it. That's good." Like, she didn't know I ran it, but she knew of it, which was really cool.

Connor: Oh, wow. That's lovely, and I've had that a few times or times when someone has recognized me in public or recognized, well, something that I've done. And I'm like, "I didn't do anything like that and what you said." But it's definitely like a star-struck moment.

Connor: Okay, then, so if the people having enjoyed today's episode, then where could they find you online? Like, LinkedIn or anything?

Alia: Yes, so I have LinkedIn, and my handle...I think it's just my name. It should just be Alia Awan. A-L-I-A. And then space. And then Awan, A-W-A-N

Connor: Brilliant. Thank you. This has been a brilliant conversation. It's going to be really useful, and best of luck with your PhD and in the future.

Alia: Thank you. Thank you for listening as well to all listeners.

I really hope you enjoyed today’s university psychology student life podcast episode.

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